Summary

This transcript summary covers the discussion regarding the development of the "KJ System," team management across Singapore (SG) and Kuala Lumpur (KL) offices, and the integration of AI into creative workflows.

1. Main Topics Discussed

2. Key Points and Decisions Made

3. Action Items and Next Steps

4. Participants and Roles

5. Notable Quotes and Highlights

6. Technical Details and Constraints

Full Transcript

Here is the transcription of the audio clip with speaker labels:

Jared: [00:00:00] ...system to... I was looking at it, it’s all working, but like what you say, like the thing about the staff part right, is like... it’s so... this is like the... hmm... like, is this too much work for... like for our companies right, right? Are we creating a too complicated system? Like the... the system to reduce friction, yes. But then I think because of that, because of that conversation it kind of led to like, okay how can we better... track the overall hours and the production lah, right? Then it... it kind of like it’s more volume, right? More out of control, but it’s like more volume to like, oh then we need this, we need that, we need this... we need like 30 30 30 30 something right. So... I actually we haven’t updated you guys yet lah on what’s the current situation. But it does feel like it’s... it’s growing to that big and... I... it’s... it’s definitely out of control.

Davier: [00:01:10] I think the... in software we always talk about minimum viable product. So I think the minimum viable product is very achievable from what we see... from what KJ wants to achieve, especially with today’s tools. Uh... what he wants to do beyond that minimum viable product, that one... okay he might get... oh he’s a very excitable person so I think he might want to push for things. He’s a perfectionist as well. Uh I’m sure you are too, but then I think you you see from this perspective that uh there can be too much of a good thing also, which is valuable. Oh... yeah. I think uh when it comes to working on projects like this it’s good to know when to pull back as well. And that’s probably where you come in lah.

Jared: [00:02:18] No... okay... but it’s very hard to... okay let’s not do this because whatever I see right, it’s also like oh yeah, it’ll be good to have, right? But I don’t see it as a... either don’t do or do. It’s a constant jam actually I feel you lah. Yeah. It’s really... cause I think... it’s very hard to break down into all the... the details. But then the... the system that KJ is trying to build together with... uh Kokko and... uh Jackson right? Is really something that that pulls data from all the different parts and they are all sort of like tied together. Yeah. So if you kind of skim on a certain... thing, then there’s like features that can be introduced down the line, but the overall sort of intention of the system is like... it’s growing ah, right? And then... oh actually I don’t really mean that, but I just wanted to let you know that yeah it’s like... getting something... it’s in the works. It’s too late to sort of stop it now, right? As a danger for it to... but I’m just saying that I I feel that there are certain safe points in a project right...

Davier: [00:03:41] ...which I think where you save it and you don’t proceed further, I think it’s still very valuable.

Jared: [00:03:47] True true true.

Davier: [00:03:49] Yeah. Especially... I think the... the thing is reducing the friction for our artists to enter data, I think is most crucial because I think that’s the... the constant roadblock that our guys face all the time lah.

Jared: [00:04:06] Which... I think... I think... okay it’s just the boss right, I think we do have the resources to achieve that in a very... sort of analog way. It’s mainly... now also like you have... you have department leads...

Davier: [00:04:20] ...yeah...

Jared: [00:04:21] ...then who do the stand-up...

Davier: [00:04:23] ...yeah...

Jared: [00:04:24] ...and then the producers are really sort of enforcing it to do the harvest regularly already... right before the department leads sort of step in, right? So that’s like the... okay you need people to harvest on time sort of check. But then it’s like a very analog way lah because we are basically sitting around now to make sure everyone do it. But it works. Yeah. Then the other ones is I think with the department leads also... hopefully with better oversight... we can get better oversight on the manpower also lah... right. So like now I think between like the past two months than me and Jackson did it, I do get a better sense of like, okay who’s busy with what, right? And then who is like... noticeably a lot more available lah... mainly because also it’s very hard to put them on... certain projects. Right. So... then it’s really like a transition period. That’s sort of the analog way of like making sure the hours sort of uh... are sort of captured lah.

Davier: [00:05:35] Yeah... well analog way it it eats up uh processing power from each of you, even if it’s small it’s still that little bit that can be dedicated to other things lah.

Jared: [00:05:46] Fair enough.

Davier: [00:05:47] Yeah. So... uh this kind of uh every time we remove one of these manual bits right, it frees up your mind space for other things. That’s the... that’s the whole lah, that’s the hope. Yeah. Uh which also what the system KJ is trying to do is all about lah. So that’s why I’m not... I’m just like on the back of my mind I’m like, hmm wow, we are only 60 people, do we need this kind of sophisticated... Have you used any of these low-coding platforms?

Jared: [00:06:21] No lah.

Davier: [00:06:22] No, like... Kodak...

Jared: [00:06:24] No, like... no I haven’t had the necessity to organize my life like that.

Davier: [00:06:33] Uh... I I would say that these tools right, they they impact your life in a lot more ways than what your current imagination might might imagine lah.

Jared: [00:06:44] Okay.

Davier: [00:06:45] So for example... the... the stuff that KJ is doing now... uh many years... like... just a year ago right, it would require a large team of developers to create something. Even a... a proof of concept that what KJ showed that day... right. Uh it would take a large number of developers like maybe two months to even do and he did it in a few weeks with just one person. Uh... that’s just one aspect. And then if you think about how it can... how it can impact your your day-to-day right, even in your... office tech right... you you can even ask it to create like scripts for you.

Jared: [00:07:27] Yeah... Oh that one I actually do lah, yeah right... but it’s more like oh organize like... doing like actual programs or like...

Davier: [00:07:37] Programs is one thing, scripts is another. These are very direct ways it can help you. And then there’s indirect ways also uh to to like sort of organize your life like your your paperwork your documents can ask it to help you do a a draft first. Uh... and then after that you you fill it up manually later based on the draft. It it cuts the the workload uh in your brain by half lah. Yeah. So it it helps a lot lah.

Jared: [00:08:11] Oh then... how what have you been using it for?

Davier: [00:08:14] Bro... I I... okay so I use this thing called OpenClaude... uh... it’s a way to use uh LLM inside of Telegram. So I can use it to... uh create new ways to help me. So I I’ve created like a... I use this thing called Obsidian personally because I find it a lot more customizable. It’s a... it’s like a Notion but it’s it’s all uh within the... it’s all local in the computer. Although it syncs the files but the files are there local. Uh I use Telegram to interface with Obsidian.

Jared: [00:08:58] Okay.

Davier: [00:08:59] So like you know how when you use ChatGPT you ask ChatGPT something and then okay it’ll become one of the the chats at the side. And then that content you either have to copy and paste manually into Notion or whatever. Yeah. So this uh I ask it to create Obsidian notes for me all the time. Whenever I ask it something, I upload a PDF, I ask it to summarize, upload it to Obsidian as a note. Then it it creates something, because I I customized Obsidian to be exactly how my brain uh interacts with notes uh with text. So like bold stuff is a different color, italic stuff is a different color, it’s like for kids like that. Right? But it it works with my brain very well. So I ask it to generate all these different notes for all sorts of things, like even if I copy like a long like uh thread from Slack and then I paste it and ask it to summarize for me and then place it in. So next time I can re I can search using this OpenClaude right? It can search my entire Obsidian uh directory and surface relevant information. Nowadays I don’t have to go into... I don’t have to go into Notion or check my calendar, enable the the list of people who are on leave. Uh... I just ask who is on leave today, who is on leave tomorrow. Yeah. All these...

Jared: [00:10:35] But you still... so it still kind of syncs to other...

Davier: [00:10:39] Yeah it syncs lah, yeah right... so it’s a it’s a like a one-stop shop right now where I I don’t have to think, I don’t have to go to Slack to check, I don’t have to go to...

Jared: [00:10:49] ...can you like... tell it to input stuff as well, so like...

Davier: [00:10:53] Yeah...

Jared: [00:10:54] Oh okay, so it’s like oh I need a block out this day from this day.

Davier: [00:10:59] Yeah. So it it syncs with our calendar. So whenever I need to arrange a I don’t have to go into calendar, type in, select the time and everything, I just type in natural language it creates the the the calendar for me. Even with tasks also. So uh...

Jared: [00:11:18] ...so this is recording currently to your Obsidian now?

Davier: [00:11:21] Yeah yeah yeah. So later I’ll just upload it and then it’ll upload it as a transcript.

Jared: [00:11:26] Oh this is the Apple...

Davier: [00:11:28] This is just a regular Apple voice recorder. Then after that I’ll just upload it.

Jared: [00:11:32] Oh...

Davier: [00:11:33] Okay so I I got this... uh... wait this one... this one I just uploaded a PDF right, I asked it to summarize for me, I ask it to generate the a narrative for me based on the uh information provided by the production house. Yeah and then because my brain is puny or and or also I have a lot of things to care about, I ask it to summarize it in a table format. So every time I need to refer back I just go back to this. So I got the... I got a journal like every day I I just talk into it and then it’ll record down everything that happens. I have tasks that uh that surface... uh that I add uh to OpenClaude and it adds anywhere inside my Obsidian. Right? Anywhere I type it here also, I type a a checkbox with a day right, it’ll register as a task.

Jared: [00:12:28] Oh...

Davier: [00:12:29] Right? I can check it using this right? I got my task over here right? Or I got I vibe coded this my Mac app.

Jared: [00:12:38] Right? Oh... okay.

Davier: [00:12:41] So it’s all created from uh Claude code. Right? Then I I can I can check the box whenever I’m done. Hmm... Hmm... And then I can okay I can undo that if I want to. Yeah it reacts here. So this Mac app actually searches my entire Obsidian vault. Yeah. Hmm... Interesting. So I just every it keeps my brain working, I mean after office hours also, because I always thinking of what to what to create lah. Yeah. Hmm... My interface is just here through through Telegram.

Jared: [00:13:21] Oh...

Davier: [00:13:22] Yeah. I’m telling it what to code. Yeah. But this is like super far-fetched already. All you need right now ah is a subscription to Claude. And you just ask it to do things. Or if you got ChatGPT right, you just ask it... you can use Kodak.

Jared: [00:13:43] Yeah... Yeah... Keep that in mind.

Davier: [00:13:46] Yeah I do feel like yeah maybe I should start organizing some of these things better.

Jared: [00:13:54] Yeah. Uh good. Uh... okay... Uh I guess another... oh I think one thing I should have brought up first uh is how the check-in system uh the KL guys did... Uh... right. Uh... generally I think KJ can go into more detail on the KL side, right? Uh for SG side... uh... let me remember everything... okay... uh Jackson... did you record it?

Jared: [00:14:21] Yeah he recorded already. Yeah. Maybe should record down next time.

Davier: [00:14:26] Uh... no I’m glad to you see the flaws in my system. Yeah.

Jared: [00:14:32] Mean...

Davier: [00:14:33] Well when you see flaws then you improve what else. That’s how it takes.

Jared: [00:14:37] Yeah it’s really like yeah I should have done it, I should have recorded and then it’s all there and I don’t have to think about it after the the the check-in.

Davier: [00:14:45] Yeah. Because also when you talk to the person it type on your phone or you type... yeah it distracts you from the thing. Yeah. Then after that you have to go back into the thing to to summarize the thing yourself.

Jared: [00:14:58] You you do the recording, you you don’t have to follow my my way of doing things. What you can do is just use Gemini which we already have a subscription for. Use the thinking one, it it can separate who is the speaker. Uh... and it’s going to figure out who’s talking about what.

Jared: [00:15:15] Yeah, that’s probably what I should have done.

Jared: [00:15:18] Okay. But I think general thing ah... is really we just trying to get a sense of their uh... their headspace with regards to all the AI stuff and then as well as how they feel about... and then it’s really I think the overall con- the direction for all our chats with the Singapore side or Jackson’s team room...

Davier: [00:15:41] Shilon Jackson and Shilon.

Jared: [00:15:43] Is really just to okay like we have the lead now, so uh things like self-learning, all this uh needs to be a bit more controlled lah. So definitely it’s more of like trying to figure out what they want to do for self-learning and then how is it... how can it support the growth of the company or in terms of projects as well. And then sort of directing them to uh more tangible outcomes lah. Okay. So I think very... it’s it’s a work in progress. So things like Shilon uh has been pretty the past week right then never say anything. I know KJ knew that... yeah. Oh actually KJ thought I was talking or something but I knew that I already stopped him from uh I already like sort of put a plug on that. So because I didn’t I didn’t need more stuff to define. Yeah right. So he was still like for two days right so I knew he was doing something, I knew he was doing self-learning but he never say anything about that until only on the Friday I’m like oh Shilon what are you doing today? Oh self-learning. Then I’m like okay then can you yeah right can you like uh... what’s that... construct a more construct a brief for me lah because he was saying like oh he’s just following a tutorial on Blender. Which no no issues with that, but then also before that I already talked to him to like try some video AI.

Davier: [00:17:15] Okay. Yeah yeah.

Jared: [00:17:18] Which he did produce some results. Just that I at that point I didn’t want to uh have him develop more stuff because now it will take up more time.

Davier: [00:17:28] Okay.

Jared: [00:17:29] So now he’s doing Blender. Okay no issue. But then it’s really the more of the fact that he never really uh adhered to whatever we did discuss ah. So basically we give him the free rein to oh we give him the what’s the word... uh entrusted him the responsibility to construct his own learning program.

Davier: [00:17:53] Yeah right.

Jared: [00:17:54] Then all we ask for in return is like okay you know like be accountable for it lah. Right? But then he never... yeah right... are you doing like okay can you come up with a brief or something so at least... yeah yeah... Uh so that’s the that’s what we’re trying to sort of mold.

Davier: [00:18:14] Okay. Yeah I think with regards to Shilon in particular he uh... he can work on things that have already been designed right, uh but he’s not so much of a person who comes out with something from scratch.

Jared: [00:18:29] Hmm.

Davier: [00:18:30] So for for this kind of people I I would like to push them to use GenAI even more.

Jared: [00:18:38] Hmm. For Jackson I can I can close one eye because you know he he his stuff is very good...

Jared: [00:18:46] Yeah which is lot more to sort of develop lah. So for Jackson’s case it’s mainly more like okay you tell us what you want what kind of styles you want to explore. Because I think one of the feedback he has for his check-in was that he uh he wants to explore different 2D motion graphics work lah. So not just character 2D character animation. He wants to like sort of not be pigeonholed into just that. Like oh 2D character animation just get Jackson to do it. I think he does want to sort of like uh broaden his skills.

Davier: [00:19:22] Okay.

Jared: [00:19:23] So okay lah we just then we’ll like okay for self-learning wise... no uh we told him like okay but then the projects coming in they come in mostly is like these few already you’ve known him for the past like seven years. So if he wants to try something new he kind of has to come from him where like he proposes like okay how about this style and then we can see what we try to make it fit for certain projects lah. So it’s easy to come from Jackson.

Davier: [00:19:51] Okay. Right? So then like when you have the time then do do do do this things lah. Okay. So hopefully it works lah. For Shilon’s side uh I think even for the GenAI yes yes I see I also get the sense like okay you know what maybe the GenAI stuff he should focus on it at least it’s solving a bit of like the creative direction weakness of his lah. Yeah. But then it’s also when I saw the stuff that he come came up with right? So it’s you don’t know whether it’s him or GenAI but I feel like oh wait you know like the references he used or like the way the the end result of the image generator can have a stronger creative direction way right? Yeah. So even in the GenAI the the weakness still plays back into itself lah. So I’m hmm... okay. Yeah. No mistakes on the figure. But yeah but look on that. I think I can try to we’ll try to push him in that direction. Then on Gen... then I think it’s really more like we just trying to get his buy-in on like uh being supportive of our endeavors lah right... Uh definitely so he definitely like he does the does what he needs to do. I think when we brought out the the hour system to him right and then uh mainly just asking how he feels about it right then his response was he just like oh uh like he won’t he won’t really pay too much attention to it, he’ll just continue doing what he’s doing. Yeah right. Uh whether the budget exceeds...

Davier: [00:21:40] Rightfully so it doesn’t feel like it’s his problem to solve.

Jared: [00:21:44] Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Davier: [00:21:46] But also he usually I don’t know if I’m correct about this but if if budget burst I don’t think it’s mostly his fault lah.

Jared: [00:21:56] Right because he’s not like slacking he’s not slacking he’s not he’s working too hard.

Davier: [00:22:03] Yeah he’s usually like working inefficiently but trying to solve it for the past two years. Which makes sense lah so the budget burst usually comes from his side right. But then yeah lah it does present like okay maybe there is a something above uh Shilon that causes the budget burst.

Jared: [00:22:25] Yeah but then that is then for us it’s like yeah okay we get where you’re coming from. We also don’t want to like he also feel like his our system is like a bit too micromanage, which I agree.

Davier: [00:22:36] Oh yeah yeah.

Jared: [00:22:37] But it’s a it has to be done. Every policy right is micro. Yeah you have people who really deserve this policy and you have people who really don’t deserve this policy. But we have to make a policy nonetheless. It’s it’s just the... Then I think for us it’s really just uh coming to the consensus like work from home. Oh like people who are hardworking and and like responsible they can work from home every day and it’s totally fine. But but yeah most people are not like that.

Jared: [00:23:10] Yeah.

Jared: [00:23:12] So uh for GenAI’s side it’s really uh he just want him to what’s that be more supportive in terms of sharing... oh I think for one of the discussion we had is really just building up that knowledge base. Yeah. Yes I think he’s getting him to share more of whatever he’s tracked and all that stuff. I think his job right now should be mostly sharing cause he has got a lot of like cool like uh ways to to do things but maybe not

Jared: [00:23:45] He has but then I also feel like it’s very seldom put into practice. But I don’t know whether that’s a matter of like more of the uh what’s the word... opportunity cost kind of things with regards to the project. Like yes he can try it out but then if it doesn’t work out then then it’s kind of like shooting himself in the foot.

Davier: [00:24:06] So he does put a lot of things into practice like it’s whatever it saves time just mmm... maybe.

Jared: [00:24:14] Yeah he does he actually true ah the Brani the Brani where it does actually a lot of stuff.

Davier: [00:24:20] Okay okay. I take back my thing.

Jared: [00:24:23] Hmm yeah. They all have their strengths lah. Then for the KL side right uh I think for Reno and Rex uh it’s really I think KJ’s discussion with them is really more about uh self-learning stuff also. Yeah.

Davier: [00:24:40] I think getting nervous when he hears so much self-learning.

Jared: [00:24:44] Oh no it’s more like uh channeling the self-learning to be something more uh fruitful and productive.

Davier: [00:24:51] Okay but there shouldn’t be too much of self-learning.

Jared: [00:24:55] Currently now a bit. It’s a bit difficult to determine. Reno last year like 50%.

Davier: [00:25:01] Uh we trying... so that’s where we come in lah hopefully we can try to shift things around so that they are more fully utilized and that’s where KJ’s uh system will also help us understand better what the workflow of each and every artist is like over the course of like one or two months. Yeah. Uh but I think with regards to our chat with them his chat with them uh the main thing was really uh point I think KJ did a very good job in like sort of bringing up the self-learning especially for Reno’s side. Uh the issue that you know he has a lot of self-learning hours last year lah. Uh one insight that he got was uh Reno doesn’t really see it as a problem.

Davier: [00:25:47] Yeah. Cause to him he was self-learning. Yeah yeah yeah.

Jared: [00:25:52] Right? But I think the issue comes in like he was self-learning things he posts posts stuff on the the self-learning board right. To him that’s like oh I’m making good use of my time taking taking I’m not just like in the toilet streaming my phone or like sleeping in the office right. But I think the issue lies with that like there wasn’t there wasn’t oversight to direct his self-learning outcomes lah. So a lot of stuff that he do is really I think it’s the the issue is like uh it’s a lot of whatever I feel like doing.

Davier: [00:26:27] Yeah. Right? Where we’re paying him to yeah do whatever he wants to do on our on our dime. Yeah.

Jared: [00:26:34] But then you can uh more competent person will be able to channel that into something that’s like this is what I’m trying to do let’s say Marcy lah right. This is what I’m trying to do this is how it can contribute right. Then that’s like the ideal lah you know you don’t have to direct them they are self-directed. But I think for Reno’s case is KJ really try to he’s trying to uh get a better rein of his self-learning stuff and where the AI specifically AI stuff that’s the default now. Then for Rex... Rex did want to sort of uh she sees the the inequality in the office where like oh she she sees like Kokko is like you know OT so much.

Davier: [00:27:14] Yeah.

Jared: [00:27:15] And then like not only the the KL side like oh Kokko is OTing so much but then you know yeah her and Reno they sometimes they have like these pockets of free time when they do self-learning. So she understands that and then I guess her main motivation is really uh to to sort of uh help out.

Davier: [00:27:36] Help Kokko.

Jared: [00:27:37] Yeah. Help Kokko. Yeah. So to help pad out the uh sort of be able to help Kokko lah. So now we’re kind of putting her to sort of learn C4D.

Davier: [00:27:51] Okay. Yeah. Which is good ah. She she’s interested.

Jared: [00:27:56] Oh yeah she she suggested it herself. I think the the the decision was whether to ask her to learn Blender or to learn C4D.

Davier: [00:28:05] Yeah.

Jared: [00:28:06] But I think in in the capacity of like okay project wise maybe this one two years right then uh need if we need 3D motion graphics so we don’t need so uh detailed or like high skill level motion graphics like a lot projects that is just the land spinning around and the tactical spinning around. So it can be done quite easily with someone with uh junior entry level C4D knowledge lah. Which saves out time for Jackson or Kokko to sort of come in and do. Yeah so that’s sort of the target lah. Kokko uh trying to enable him more lah giving him more space to do stuff. Kokko has been uh... yeah... he’s been... good many years.

Davier: [00:28:53] No not many years he’s just he used to be working a lot.

Jared: [00:28:57] Ah yeah. That’s the... yeah. I find it amazing how he can talk 30 days of OT.

Davier: [00:29:06] Yeah. 30 days of OT in a month.

Jared: [00:29:08] Yeah. I’m not gonna question him but yeah... Monday he works on the global global. So it’s it’s do you think it’s just just that there’s no other way other than to talk 30 days of of OT or do you feel like there’s some inefficiency there?

Jared: [00:29:31] Uh how you can talk 30 days of OT is like like what two months of work. He doesn’t sleep ah. Right.

Jared: [00:29:41] But I mean it might not be a full 30 days, right? It might be closer to maybe 14 or 15. Yeah. I I it does raise some I’m not saying I’m being suspicious but it’s like hmm is it really uh reflective of like the amount of work he spends.

Davier: [00:29:58] Right. And also not having the whole global stuff captured in it’s just the SG part and then he’s compiling ah. Yeah. To be fair compiling does take a lot of time.

Jared: [00:30:09] But yes I the short answer I do think there are some inefficiency. Then also uh with regards to maybe the management wise project management wise maybe could have been a bit more tighter who knows? I only came in like in the last one or two months so I don’t know. Maybe it’s the the constant changes and updates from the client which he has voiced out... which I think in the future we do need for like these senior projects we need to sort of uh what’s the word... uh have a better rein on them lah. Rather than just giving rather than just giving the artist like free rein to OT and everything right. But it’s uh I mean based on the AI it’s kind of unavoidable. It was kind of unavoidable all the changes.

Davier: [00:30:57] Yeah.

Jared: [00:30:58] There were a lot of uh in the AR for the Mazda there were a lot of comment of like oh why the client asked for changes so many changes? Why why do we have to give so many uh intermittent updates like update every two days kind of things we need to submit. And uh based on what George and Leon replied is it’s really the unfortunate alignment of you have a client that that can’t visualize and is very micromanage and you have a very short deadline.

Davier: [00:31:32] Yeah.

Jared: [00:31:33] Right. And I think at that point they they they didn’t want to push their luck in trying to like oh we only want once a week kind of update. Yeah. So that that is ah. Hmm. Yeah but yeah the 30 days the 30 days of OT. Yeah. I don’t know how he does that. But other than that um I think for Kokko Kokko wise is maybe just trying to uh I wouldn’t say keep him happy but at least like like give him less reasons to to blame the the pool.

Davier: [00:32:15] Hmm.

Jared: [00:32:16] Right? So anything it’s really like oh we like we give you new computer already, we we hire someone new to sort of uh

Davier: [00:32:23] I think he wants an even faster computer.

Jared: [00:32:27] He got the fastest computer. Yeah he got the fastest computer already so it is the fastest one. Yeah.

Jared: [00:32:32] Then oh okay like we we understand like you cannot do everything alone so we getting someone uh uh sort of extra hand to help you kind of thing. Then he did he mentioned something about his previous job he he didn’t have a life at all but he got he got high pay.

Jared: [00:32:51] Hmm.

Jared: [00:32:52] He thought when he said he thought when he come here he’ll take a lower pay hmm but he’ll get more life but he said because of this Mazda project he didn’t get a life.

Davier: [00:33:04] Okay but the Mazda project was like two months ah.

Jared: [00:33:08] Yeah.

Davier: [00:33:09] Yeah. So uh see lah see how see how it goes. But oh did he really mention that? Did he mention that? Probably KJ didn’t mention it but okay just good to see how he feels about it already mention about it. Yeah. But then our our solution is okay lah we get one more hands to help you lah.

Davier: [00:33:26] Yeah.

Jared: [00:33:27] Uh which makes sense because the SG office only has me Jackson and Kokko now. If I’m busy stuff, Jackson is usually tied up on a big project. Then there’s only Kokko, then Kokko is also usually tied up on a big project. So there’s no other...

Davier: [00:33:45] So we don’t mind looking in KL for hire.

Jared: [00:33:49] Yeah yeah.

Davier: [00:33:50] Okay. Uh close general... yeah that’s the general summary for the the motion team. Anything we missed?

Jared: [00:33:57] No. No.

Davier: [00:33:59] Okay. Then with regards to department things again... Uh we have a very well fresh out of the oven. Uh I need to hear your insight.

Davier: [00:34:10] Yes.

Jared: [00:34:11] So like I say we are we’re trying to get a new hire for Singapore side for SG side motion graphics to mainly to assist Kokko or to like be an addition to Kokko.

Davier: [00:34:23] Yes.

Jared: [00:34:25] Right. So currently now we’ve sort of narrowed down to two candidates. Hmm. All right. Uh maybe we can discuss candidate A candidate B. Right. So candidate A... uh I think generally the consensus was that they they do have a higher technical skill lah. Right? And then the projects they worked on previously uh were very they look very visually uh high quality.

Davier: [00:34:54] High production value.

Jared: [00:34:56] High production value right? But then the I guess the catch is that they worked in mainly worked in teams lah. Very big teams. I think like maybe 12 people in a team. So you don’t know which part is his. Uh then but the good thing with why we narrowed him down was that he was able to sort of uh what’s the word... uh communicate lah which part he did and then also his specific lah. So there wasn’t any like fudging around.

Davier: [00:35:30] Any like more soloish projects?

Jared: [00:35:33] Uh no. But I think uh based on the interview he was quite he was quite he was able to communicate quite clearly what his strengths were. Which we found like okay this would this is like technically suitable for the SG motion graphics right? And then uh the main idea is that can it help Kokko?

Davier: [00:35:56] Hmm.

Jared: [00:35:57] Can it serve as a assistant to Kokko so not everything gets not everything gets thrown to Kokko. I think we assessed that oh yeah actually it’s a good fit. Right. Uh so that’s candidate A. Candidate B is uh technically 3D traditional 3D motion graphics wise a bit less uh a bit less pure. Right? Uh what level I think...

Jared: [00:36:27] It’s not bad right? It’s just I think also maybe from your perspective or or all our shared situations it might even be okay for the bread and butter stuff.

Jared: [00:36:40] Right. And then the main selling main selling point for this candidate B is that they recently I think the past one or two years they’ve been working quite heavily into AI workflows.

Davier: [00:36:52] Hmm.

Jared: [00:36:54] So they have like uh they did show us like a portfolio of uh their past AI work which is like uh pretty much like 70 80% AI and then it’s the the remainder 20 30% is just touching up in After Effects or Photoshop lah just to make the assets uh seamless. So it’s really like uh whatever whatever we usually do so like 20 20 seconds, 30 seconds, 30 second commercial. so uh one minute features like that kind of time and it’s a full GenAI workflow. Right. Uh definitely so one thing they also they also quite uh forthcoming about is that the quality wise is is is very noticeable as AI lah. Right. It’s it’s good as AI but you can tell it’s AI kind of thing. Right? But and then that’s basically what their company was asking for yeah at that time. They just oh we just need a content right, it doesn’t need to be super high fidelity, doesn’t need to be like recognizably from human artwork. Right? But then the the AI workflow is there they know how to sort of start with a brief and then generate all the scenes and then from there animate all the scenes and then stitch them all together with music and then do the whatever corrections needed.

Davier: [00:38:21] Shot by shot is seamless?

Jared: [00:38:23] Uh it it works lah. Yeah. It’s it’s definitely the AI symptom where the all the shots are like less than five seconds long. Yeah. But it’s uh you can tell that there is a uh structural narrative intent behind it. Yeah. So uh then also like some of the the the the flaws of AI so like let’s say you have a city shot and then this like very common in the midjourney style then currently the camera angle changes or the the city is entirely different that’s quite common thing but uh you I think I think based on their company sort of requirements that wasn’t really an issue back then ah I think whatever that was produced was suitable for them only. Right. So now we are thinking like uh on the context of let’s say we need a new a new 3D motion graphic artist. Right? So do we go for the more technically uh capable one? All right? And or do we go for the slightly less technically capable but still I think fits within the bandwidth the range of our projects that we usually do, right? But then also comes with the they also have this extra AI workflow accessory under their belt. And then the whole idea is like uh who do we hire to sort of assist Kokko or like to be the assistant to Kokko? So then the intent of like creative direction or art direction then things that we assigned to Kokko, then this other person they can sort of share the burden.

Davier: [00:40:11] Yeah... yeah... who are you leaning towards?

Jared: [00:40:14] This candidate A is also more expensive than this one. But I guess in terms of... yeah it’s like 8000 RM, eh 9000? I think 8000 RM and what is this? the KL lah... I think KL RM 8000.

Davier: [00:40:34] Yeah SG lean towards this guy.

Jared: [00:40:37] This guy.

Davier: [00:40:38] Yeah. Why?

Jared: [00:40:39] Okay uh before you answer right... So one of the considerations was also like like we are trying to push like the AI workflow right. So why we considering this certain uh candidate B is like oh you know it’s like probably what you all would have wanted uh here to be lah when you all hired her.

Davier: [00:41:04] Yeah yeah yeah right that’s why I’m I have my once bitten twice shy moment.

Jared: [00:41:09] Okay.

Davier: [00:41:10] Okay so then what was the what was the pitfall for her that that didn’t work out? That might happen to the candidate B also.

Jared: [00:41:19] Uh... we had the impression that the this person was a was like a lead level kind of person who would sort of take on projects and figure out the idea how to achieve it regardless of whether it’s AI or not. Hmm. I don’t want the person’s... every time I encourage people to use AI I’m not telling people to only use AI. I want people to include AI as a possible solution but I don’t want people to to use AI as the only solution. Like this is the only tool they have.

Davier: [00:41:59] Yeah yeah yeah.

Davier: [00:42:01] It is one of the tools. Yeah. And whatever achieves the best outcome for the job.

Jared: [00:42:07] Yeah. If the if the client has truly like no money then it’s full AI ah. That’s I think that’s usually the limiting factor lah right. If we realize that there’s no budget and then the client still want something then then you just ask the client are you are you okay with AI. But otherwise uh AI should be in- should be used in our day-to-day work in an invisible manner. Just like every other thing like VFX or whatever it just be invisible. Okay. So I I think it’s a lot harder to cultivate 3D skills than AI skills. Unless you’re telling me that the he creatively directed like the AI shots and those are like freaking amazing.

Jared: [00:42:55] How about that?

Jared: [00:42:57] Not freaking... it’s not freaking amazing, but I think based on their interview what they got was like because it’s not a creative studio, I think it was like a a trading company.

Davier: [00:43:08] Oh...

Jared: [00:43:10] So the marketing gave them the briefs... yeah... like okay we want to do a 60 second uh commercial about this tool. Right and then they have like I guess like the the overall.

Davier: [00:43:24] Then this is the in-house team. In-house team will have less pressure will have faced less pressure during his career and would not be a like in terms of fit will be less of a fit yeah. Whereas this guy he comes from a production house right?

Jared: [00:43:42] Yes.

Davier: [00:43:44] He has faced pressure, he is used to it, he’s forged in fire and he has the skills, I assume he has aesthetics also. Yeah.

Jared: [00:43:54] Yeah. Hmm okay.

Davier: [00:43:58] So your main uh any if we want... our our thinking was like it’s easier to learn AI than to learn like 3D.

Jared: [00:44:06] Yes yes.

Davier: [00:44:09] Yeah. And you can see even if we hire someone who is not as skilled creatively-wise with AI there’s also shortcomings right. And if you have the skill set to produce something fantastic using 3D you will have that sort of like innate gatekeeping abilities when you generate stuff in AI. Although the the technical stuff parts of AI right, all those nodes, all those combined different like uh models together, those I think can be learned far easier than 3D.

Jared: [00:44:50] True true.

Jared: [00:44:53] Yeah. What if what if we hire the candidate B with the intention to sort of expose the SG mainly KL team lah, but maybe also the SG team to more options on how AI can be used. So kind of like Shilon but in a less siloed way. And then in that sense like I think one of the...

Davier: [00:45:24] Did he have other stuff outside of his work that’s that’s using AI that’s using AI?

Jared: [00:45:30] Uh I think mostly in the in their time in the company. But it’s quite varied lah. So there’s like one minute commercials and then there’s like 30 second sort of like digital like sort of like short clips and stuff or like there’s also like uh what’s that other thing... it’s like a event opening titles kind of thing. So quite similar to...

Davier: [00:45:57] But all done in during office hours lah.

Jared: [00:46:00] All done during office hours right.

Davier: [00:46:03] My take is that AI is so readily accessible that if he’s only doing it during office hours, I think he’s just doing it for to get paid to live and he won’t be as much of a advocate for AI as one might think. Because he’s he’s still doing it for his boss.

Jared: [00:46:31] True they are they do want to jump or to leave because they feel like their current company is leaning too heavily into AI. Ah they want to again they want to retain some of their uh artistic uh

Davier: [00:46:50] you know like Gen he’s his after office hours he’s still like finding out about AI stuff.

Jared: [00:46:58] True.

Davier: [00:47:01] Yeah. This guy if he’s like only doing it because his boss asked him to he’s not going to be as pushy about AI as Shilon. I mean he he’ll probably do a good job with AI tools but then we still have to push him in the same or even worse than Shilon.

Jared: [00:47:20] Hmm.

Davier: [00:47:21] Yeah that’s what I think lah.

Jared: [00:47:23] True. Yeah. Hmm. Good thing you asked KJ. I think our our guys right they are getting proficient in AI. I think even like uh Sujie right probably can trump this guy already.

Davier: [00:47:45] Maybe. But I think it’s also the nature of what what we do that we don’t really we don’t really have a scope of like oh full AI things. Yeah. Did he show you like any like like play blasts to AI workflows?

Jared: [00:48:02] No. Uh they did show like screenshots of basically it’s like through Midjourney... essentially like something similar to Midjourney like their own stable diffusion and then the screenshots of all those nodes.

Davier: [00:48:21] It’s kind of like super easy to do. Yeah.

Davier: [00:48:25] Yeah. Like if you tell me that oh man he has this like specific like way to do it oh he animates something in Cinema 4D and then he renders out a playblast then he passes it through the software to use the same camera motion and all that. Yeah I’ll be super interested. Hmm. But if it’s like I type in something, okay I add I add another reference and all that it becomes something.

Jared: [00:48:58] Which is also what we wanted to interview him for, just to see where they are coming from.

Davier: [00:49:03] Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Unless like again yeah he either has to be like to introduce so much like control over AI that oh my god no one here can has done it yet. Or he he harnesses AI as a creative director to produce visuals like that’s the thing that will be asking for much more. Yeah. Yeah.

Jared: [00:49:33] Okay.

Jared: [00:49:34] Okay I think that’s all. But I guess so is this another this is our call to make me and KJ or...

Davier: [00:49:43] Yeah you guys... uh I do uh would like you guys to ask Kokko himself as well. We had an interview with him.

Jared: [00:49:52] Yeah so he he prefers the AI one.

Davier: [00:49:55] Ah really? Oh then... oh...

Davier: [00:50:00] If we choose this guy then then we’re giving him an excuse to say hey I didn’t get my choice that’s why this guy is no good.

Jared: [00:50:09] Yeah. Yeah.

Davier: [00:50:11] But then he costs so much more. 13K wah.

Jared: [00:50:18] RM 12... oh I think for we can actually I don’t know whether we can put the this A on probation for like two months or.

Davier: [00:50:28] You can always always uh offer a amount that we are comfortable with then say this is what we can do, is he interested or not.

Jared: [00:50:39] Hmm.

Davier: [00:50:41] Yeah.

Davier: [00:50:43] Okay I’m willing to pay for Kokko level or CD level. Hmm. Okay. But for... yeah nothing. Apparently I’m like too expensive to go to KL.

Davier: [00:51:03] Yeah. A little bit. Uh but the... is it... how I found out... mainly the CNA the new trail options in program graphics right? Like thinning the budget after after the after we divide it up among the VFX and the 3D graphics and then thinning for the 3D graphics it’s like it’s too little for freelancers for us to ask freelancers to do. Then so Shalon I don’t know whether Shalon asked you she told me she should see RM.

Davier: [00:51:53] I might not have been around back then. Yeah RM.

Jared: [00:51:58] But basically it’s like currently now we deciding whether for the 3D in-house graphics the in-program graphics uh freelance or in-house. But thing is in-house Kokko and Gen are taken up already so there’s me which I can technically do. But then apparently like they said it’s if they had 40 hours like they calculate the budget so they only like they have 40 hours for the for the graphics right. So once it’s thrown to me it becomes like 16 hours.

Davier: [00:52:39] Oh wow yeah.

Jared: [00:52:42] So ah do I just do I just or you you do something that you can complete in 16 hours something very simple.

Jared: [00:52:54] No but the client wants the client has shown us like certain references that they want the thing to look like and then they costed the project what can be done within 16 hours for you.

Jared: [00:53:07] I can but then it’s also like like it’s you still need to do up the I also need to like okay what’s possible to do in AI but then I usually have the-

Davier: [00:53:23] Cause when you’re paid a certain amount it it makes no sense for us to buy away your 16 hours when it’s.

Jared: [00:53:32] No the thing is also it’s if if I’m too expensive for it it’s one thing. But then the issue is that also it’s the amount left after we split up among the different segments the amount left to reach out to freelancers is too not enough the freelancers are quoting more. So there’s definitely a mismatch in terms of the budget already. Ah. It really depends on the on the final proposed style. Right. Like the client can ask for the the sun and the earth or they ask for everything ah but I mean the client also has to work within the confines of reality. Yeah.

Davier: [00:54:14] Well I want to talk about I want to ask her about that. Yeah but then so I guess the thing we should probably ask you is really like do we do okay I guess the bottom line is like we’re most likely going to lose money. Most likely go over budget.

Davier: [00:54:32] Uh we can we have a buffer we might hit the buffer.

Jared: [00:54:36] We’ll most likely go over the budget of whatever they’ve currently currently right. So the question is do we go over budget by engaging a freelancer to do or do we go over budget by engaging in-house.

Davier: [00:54:48] Depends on how much.

Jared: [00:54:49] Right. I think so I was talking to Shara the other day lah so basically like if you ask me to do right uh it’s definitely going to go over budget by this certain amount because I’m a fixed rate right? Whereas if you ask a freelancer to do maybe you can negotiate. Uh no sorry if you ask a freelancer to do you’ll go over budget by this fixed amount right? Because they they we just tell them like okay I give you this much you do then okay it’s done. If I do it and then there’s more client changes right then it might increase lah. Yeah. And then also if you ask me to do in-house right then I can’t I my I can’t do SG stuff I can’t do the

Davier: [00:55:27] I need you to propose something that you can do in for example in 12 hours right? So that when when inevitably they come back with comments you’ll hit 16 hours eventually.

Jared: [00:55:40] Yeah. So okay but then I think for me it’s mainly like okay it’s really just me already because Kokko and Gen are done already. So do we do it in-house but then I end up having to do this and I possibly maybe I need to look at how much the the budget will exceed if we engage freelancers versus me versus Shara then...

Davier: [00:56:07] that’s the idea is like if I do it I can’t multitask into like SG or other stuff over that time. Yeah. But then if you give other people freelancers to do it then at least I can oversee that and then I need you to look at the the state of things the kind of projects that we are having now and look at our current mix of people.

Jared: [00:56:29] Okay.

Davier: [00:56:30] Are there too many 2D guys? Because from what I hear like 2D guys are getting like doing solid now.

Jared: [00:56:40] Yeah they’re definitely we need like maybe one or two more one more 3D 3D motion I don’t know but one 2D artist gotta go.

Davier: [00:56:55] That one I guess it’s really like at the end of the year we see what the workload lah because I can’t I can’t determine now only after two months. But what I see now is just of.

Davier: [00:57:08] No you can look at the historical data last year sales. Look at all the projects that we having last few months. Even if they are profitable like metrics-wise on paper it’s like oh this person is doing doing projects. I find it highly unlikely.

Jared: [00:57:33] So the paper is not accurate.

Davier: [00:57:35] I mean if it’s if it’s paper if it’s accurate then if it’s if it tells you it’s profitable then the person is profitable then then it doesn’t mind.

Jared: [00:57:43] Oh okay right so okay so basically one on one. Yeah basically that time I asked Josh on the the chat we brought then he showed us the spreadsheet of the profitability lah right then he told us to take it with a pinch of salt but then it’s generally the 2D motion artists are quite profitable. They’re all green. Mostly green. So it’s like oh I guess then the numbers.

Davier: [00:58:13] Is it on a project basis that green or overall?

Jared: [00:58:17] Those was like the just like the screenshot of like the table a very small screenshot and then uh hmm... let me try to find it. It’s under you me KJ and Joshua. The the group. Yeah... okay... KJ... Josh general general general general... yeah... let me search for the image. 3rd of October something like that.

Davier: [00:58:51] No I don’t see it. I don’t see any.

Jared: [00:58:55] Oh maybe it’s not ah freak. But okay I think general before. But yeah it’s like a small it’s not the whole table it’s just like a

Davier: [00:59:05] as they might have been profitable for those projects but then the rest of the time they do self-learning it’s not profitable.

Jared: [00:59:13] Oh.

Jared: [00:59:15] Yeah I thought it would just be like an aggregation of like the whole year but I’m not sure. That one we’ll see how as we track our system there. Yeah and then let’s take a look at their projects and then see whether I can multitask or we can find someone hopefully we can find a freelancer that is a bit cheaper.

Davier: [00:59:41] Yeah yeah.

Jared: [00:59:43] Last question. Just now I was talking to the client right? So again the CNA thing lah right I was basically trying to set expectations for the the the in-program graphics right like oh the quality that they ask for that they gave the references for right I was already telling them like oh uh we might not be able to it might not reach that level of quality that they are looking for. How would you frame it?

Davier: [01:00:13] Uh I would try to weave in a little bit of the word budget.

Jared: [01:00:17] That what I kind of said I think it’s like the cheaper agent- cheaper and responsive the person suddenly like huh what do you mean?

Jared: [01:00:27] So basically I showed them like okay like I’ve taken a look at the reference you gave right I just want to set expectations first like based on the amount of time the timeline as well as the resources given right it might like it might not be able to hit that same same level of quality lah but what we’ll try to do is we’ll try to make it at least baseline better than the previous CNA ones right. And I think uh if you think about it like a C’s track kind of things it didn’t work out lah so they immediately like sort of zoomed in on like what do you mean you don’t have what do you mean by not enough resources? like ah right and then it kind of explained around it lah but I think...

Davier: [01:01:13] So I think when you say not enough resources it sounds as if we didn’t assign enough people it’s our fault.

Jared: [01:01:21] Okay. But if I just say budget?

Davier: [01:01:25] Actually yes. The budget allocated for this project.

Jared: [01:01:28] Really ah? Okay. Okay.

Davier: [01:01:31] Based on the budget allocated for this project.

Jared: [01:01:34] Hmm okay.

Davier: [01:01:36] Based on the budget allocated for this project we have uh we will counter we will propose counter-propose some uh references...

Jared: [01:01:48] I did say that it’s all like okay I’ll suggest first then see when the concepts come out what what can be adjusted lah. But yeah... Okay. So this when it’s very evident that the project budget is not enough right. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Hilarious like I sit there I hear what I talk to him he just like... what do you mean by not enough resources? like ah right I kind of explained around it lah but I think not enough resources makes it feel like it’s our fault.

Jared: [01:02:27] Ah okay okay okay. I was just trying to be neutral lah but I guess... can.

Davier: [01:02:35] didn’t I make it ah didn’t we uh book you in advance why why are you uh not allocating enough resources that’s probably what they thinking.

Jared: [01:02:44] Ah okay. something to think about.

Davier: [01:02:48] Right. Alright let’s go have lunch.

Jared: [01:02:51] Thanks thanks for this feedback.

Davier: [01:02:53] Uh again uh I think just quickly back from Josh and me super happy with what you guys are doing now even with uh Leon also super happy about what you guys are doing now.

Jared: [01:03:07] Yeah we actually wrote feedback.

Davier: [01:03:09] No no we didn’t write feedback but we discussed discussed yeah we were like beaming when you guys uh came up with like a plan and then things that you guys have done already. Yeah there’s still a lot of work but the not... you’re not losing your hair lah evidently. Uh I think I think it’s sustainable.

Jared: [01:03:30] Yeah.

Davier: [01:03:31] Okay. Alright. Nice.

Jared: [01:03:36] This has been very helpful. I think we need to keep this going.

Transcribed and summarized using Google Gemini (gemini-3-flash-preview)